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    Submit Manu_script_<http://groups.google.co.in/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/web/submit-manusc... Affectionate Guardians<http://groups.google.co.in/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/web/affectionate-... Transcendental Nectar of Sadhu-Sanga <http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga *Deluding Science VS Enlightening Science* by *Sushen Krishna Das, Ph.D.*<http://www.archive.org/download/WestIndiaPreachingJuly-august2009/Dr.... * * *Bhaktivedanta Institute* * www.mahaprabhu.net/satsanga * * This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it * *Mob: +91-9748906907*   *[ Come taste the nectar of Sadhu Sanga at Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math, Navadwip Dham during Gaurapurnima (Divine Appearance Day Celebration Festival of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) from 23rd February to 1st of March, 2010. To confirm your participation please contact us before 20thJanuary 2010 at; Email: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it || Mobile: +91-9748906907 ]* This is our response to this message<http://groups.google.co.in/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/msg/237355e8a4981b64in the e-group.  Dear Dr. Hari Warrior: Please accept our humble dandavat pranams. Thank your for sharing with us the modern scientific thoughts. You said: [*The facts, from my studies seem to point to the following facts: darwinian evolution, ie man came from apes and so forth is true.*] We must investigate scientifically to ensure the validity of such concepts in modern science. Can we supply any scientific evidence to say ‘Darwinian evolution, i.e. man came from apes and so forth is true’? Can we say that a calculator is evolved by itself to a PC and then again the PC is evolved by itself into a robot? No. There is no proof needed to say that the functional efficiency is improved from calculator to robot by a person. They did not evolved by themselves. If these simple machines produced by the tiny brain of scientists do not evolve by themselves then why we want to propagate the false arguments that a chance combination of chemicals gradually evolved into complex life forms such as amoeba, bacteria, trees, birds, animas and human being. Such concepts in modern science are not only unscientific but they are deceptive. Sir Isaac Newton also argued in a similar way with his atheist friend. Newton was working on a sophisticated model of the solar system. One day an atheist-scientist friend visited Sir Isaac Newton. On seeing the model, atheist-scientist asked in wonder, “*Who made it?*” Sir Isaac Newton answered, “*Nobody!*” The atheist-scientist friend replied, “*You must think I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius.*” Sir Isaac Newton then said to his atheist-scientist friend, “*This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker!*” Hearing this atheist-scientist friend of Sir Isaac Newton made a complete about face, with meekness. The evolutionist must learn a lesson form this example cited by Sir Isaac Newton, whom all scientists consider as father of modern science. Our *Vedic* science is not cheating people by propagating the faulty concepts. The *Vedic *science is given to Lord Brahma by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna to do the creation work. There are unlimitedly many Brahmas who are doing the creation work for infinitely many universes by the help the *Vedic* science given to them by Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna. By the imagination of Lord Brahma different planets are created and also souls are placed into different bodies according to their karma in the universe. This *Vedic* knowledge is not a speculative knowledge. This is a descending knowledge coming through a bonafide chain of disciplic succession. This *Vedic* knowledge came to us in a chain of disciplic succession: from Lord Krishna to Lord Brahma, Lord Brahma to Sri Narada Rishi, Sri Narada Rishi to Srila Vyasadeva, Srila Vyasadeva to Srila Madhvacharya, and though the disciplic succession of Srila Madhvacharya to Srila Madhavendra Puri, Srila Isvara Puri, Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sada Goswamis, though the disciplic succession of Sada Goswamis to Srila Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Gaura Kishore Das Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja, Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja and Srila Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja. Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja is the present spiritual representative of this chain of disciplic succession of Sri Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya. Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja is a bonafide teacher of this chain of descending knowledge. By a spiritual connection to this line we are receiving this transcendental knowledge. Without a connection to bonafide chain of disciplic succession we can never enter into the transcendental subject matter. Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna also confirms this in *Bhagavad-gita 4.2*: *evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh*, “This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way.” You said: [*One of the primary questions comes to this, what really is intelligence?*] Ordinary scientists don’t have a clear idea about what is intelligence (* buddhih*). They have no way to study intelligence (*buddhih*) with the limited method of acquiring knowledge, which they have adopted. They have to study the theory of epistemology very carefully to appreciate the descending process of gaining knowledge which *Vedic* science suggest to understand the reality as it is. By speculation there is scope of understanding the reality. Intelligence (*buddhih*) is well explained in *Vedic* literatures. According to Vedic science the intelligence refers to the total material creation (temporary creation), called the *mahat-tattva *(*Bhagavad-gita 7.4.*) The intelligence is the feature of the mind's (*mana*) deliberation. The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of the lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living entity (soul or *ksetrajna *) and bewilders him. Intelligence is the immediate next-door neighbor of the soul or *ksetrajna *(the knower of the filed of activities (body).)Lusty intelligence influences the *ksetrajna* to acquire the false ego and identify itself with matter (body or *ksetra*), and thus with the mind and senses. The soul or *ksetrajna* becomes addicted to enjoying the material senses and mistakes this as true happiness (*Bhagavad-gita 3.40.*) That is what the evolutionists are doing. They say that we are only chemicals. We have to ask them how they want to explain love, friendship, mother hood and all the qualities a living being exhibits with this chemical concept of life. There is also a definition for real intelligence in *Bhagavad-gita 7.19*. Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna says: *bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah*, “After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.” *Jnanavan* means intelligent soul. You said: [*I believe our basic fault in thinking is in immediately correlating intelligence with a person. For example, it is well accepted that the basic feature of our 'Mother Nature' is chaos. From this chaos (which is not a thing, a person etc) system goes towards making form and shapes and weight (concept of strange attractor). Now, the commonsense tells that 'intelligence' is the opposite of this chaos (negative chaos).  It has already been proposed by many scientists that intelligence is associated with negative entropy (entropy is proportional to chaos.) Therefore deeply _embed_ded within this chaos of nature is the negative entropy which dictates how consciousness evloves. Here I am directly implying that consciousness (related to GOD, VIshnu, Brahman etc) is NOT chaos or anything derived from it, but is connected to the materrial world (chaos) through the intelligence or negative entropy phenomenon. Intelligence dictates how the consciousness evolves. This negative entropy is a BASIC feature of the universe,  and is NOT any person.*] According to the definition of Chaos for a dynamical system to be classified as chaotic, it must have the following properties: (see, Hasselblatt, Boris; Anatole Katok (2003). *A First Course in Dynamics*: With a Panorama of Recent Developments. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521587506.) (1) It must be sensitive to initial conditions, (2) It must be topologically mixing, and (3) its periodic orbits must be dense. An attractor is a set to which a dynamical system evolves after a long enough time. An attractor is known as strange attractor if it has non-integer dimension or if the dynamics on it are chaotic. (see, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory). These are mathematical terms and thus are an open proof of person and intelligence. For examples we have equations for circle, straight line and so many geometries in mathematics. But can anyone show a perfect circle or a straight line in this gross world which scientists blindly assume as the one and only reality. However, the perfect circle and straight line are their in the mind of a mathematician which will follow the respective mathematical equations perfectly. This proves that there is a mind world and that reality in mind is more perfect than this gross world. Mathematics is not disproving personality but is confirming the existence of personality. Moreover, it is a waste of time to
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From: Dr. Sushen Krishna Das < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Deluding Science VS Enlightening Science To: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM Submit Manu_script_ Affectionate Guardians Transcendental Nectar of Sadhu-Sanga Deluding Science VS Enlightening Science   by   Sushen Krishna Das, Ph.D. Bhaktivedanta Institute  www.mahaprabhu.net/satsanga This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Mob: +91-9748906907   [ Come taste the nectar of Sadhu Sanga at Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math, Navadwip Dham during Gaurapurnima (Divine Appearance Day Celebration Festival of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) from 23rd February to 1st of March, 2010. To confirm your participation please contact us before 20th January 2010 at; Email: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it || Mobile: +91-9748906907 ]   This is our response to this message in the e-group. Dear Dr. Hari Warrior:   Please accept our humble dandavat pranams.   Thank your for sharing with us the modern scientific thoughts.   You said: [The facts, from my studies seem to point to the following facts: darwinian evolution, ie man came from apes and so forth is true.]   We must investigate scientifically to ensure the validity of such concepts in modern science. Can we supply any scientific evidence to say ‘Darwinian evolution, i.e. man came from apes and so forth is true’? Can we say that a calculator is evolved by itself to a PC and then again the PC is evolved by itself into a robot? No. There is no proof needed to say that the functional efficiency is improved from calculator to robot by a person. They did not evolved by themselves. If these simple machines produced by the tiny brain of scientists do not evolve by themselves then why we want to propagate the false arguments that a chance combination of chemicals gradually evolved into complex life forms such as amoeba, bacteria, trees, birds, animas and human being. Such concepts in modern science are not only unscientific but they are deceptive.   Sir Isaac Newton also argued in a similar way with his atheist friend. Newton was working on a sophisticated model of the solar system. One day an atheist-scientist friend visited Sir Isaac Newton. On seeing the model, atheist-scientist asked in wonder, “Who made it?” Sir Isaac Newton answered, “Nobody!” The atheist-scientist friend replied, “You must think I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius.” Sir Isaac Newton then said to his atheist-scientist friend, “This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker!” Hearing this atheist-scientist friend of Sir Isaac Newton made a complete about face, with meekness. The evolutionist must learn a lesson form this example cited by  Sir Isaac Newton, whom all scientists consider as father of modern science.   Our Vedic science is not cheating people by propagating the faulty concepts. The Vedic science is given to Lord Brahma by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna to do the creation work. There are unlimitedly many Brahmas who are doing the creation work for infinitely many universes by the help the Vedic science given to them by Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna. By the imagination of Lord Brahma different planets are created and also souls are placed into different bodies according to their karma in the universe. This Vedic knowledge is not a speculative knowledge. This is a descending knowledge coming through a bonafide chain of disciplic succession.   This Vedic knowledge came to us in a chain of disciplic succession: from Lord Krishna to Lord Brahma, Lord Brahma to Sri Narada Rishi, Sri Narada Rishi to Srila Vyasadeva, Srila Vyasadeva to Srila Madhvacharya, and though the disciplic succession of Srila Madhvacharya to Srila Madhavendra Puri, Srila Isvara Puri, Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sada Goswamis, though the disciplic succession of Sada Goswamis to Srila Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Gaura Kishore Das Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja, Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja and Srila Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja.   Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja is the present spiritual representative of this chain of disciplic succession of Sri Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya. Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja is a bonafide teacher of this chain of descending knowledge. By a spiritual connection to this line we are receiving this transcendental knowledge. Without a connection to bonafide chain of disciplic succession we can never enter into the transcendental subject matter. Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna also confirms this in Bhagavad-gita 4.2: evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh, “This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way.”     You said: [One of the primary questions comes to this, what really is intelligence?]   Ordinary scientists don’t have a clear idea about what is intelligence (buddhih). They have no way to study intelligence (buddhih) with the limited method of acquiring knowledge, which they have adopted. They have to study the theory of epistemology very carefully to appreciate the descending process of gaining knowledge which Vedic science suggest to understand the reality as it is. By speculation there is scope of understanding the reality.   Intelligence (buddhih) is well explained in Vedic literatures. According to Vedic science the intelligence refers to the total material creation (temporary creation), called the mahat-tattva (Bhagavad-gita 7.4.) The intelligence is the feature of the mind's (mana) deliberation. The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of the lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the living entity (soul or ksetrajna) and bewilders him. Intelligence is the immediate next-door neighbor of the soul or ksetrajna (the knower of the filed of activities (body).) Lusty intelligence influences the ksetrajna to acquire the false ego and identify itself with matter (body or ksetra), and thus with the mind and senses. The soul or ksetrajna becomes addicted to enjoying the material senses and mistakes this as true happiness (Bhagavad-gita 3.40.)   That is what the evolutionists are doing. They say that we are only chemicals. We have to ask them how they want to explain love, friendship, mother hood and all the qualities a living being exhibits with this chemical concept of life. There is also a definition for real intelligence in Bhagavad-gita 7.19. Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna says: bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah, “After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.” Jnanavan means intelligent soul.     You said: [I believe our basic fault in thinking is in immediately correlating intelligence with a person. For example, it is well accepted that the basic feature of our 'Mother Nature' is chaos. From this chaos (which is not a thing, a person etc) system goes towards making form and shapes and weight (concept of strange attractor). Now, the commonsense tells that 'intelligence' is the opposite of this chaos (negative chaos).  It has already been proposed by many scientists that intelligence is associated with negative entropy (entropy is proportional to chaos.) Therefore deeply _embed_ded within this chaos of nature is the negative entropy which dictates how consciousness evloves. Here I am directly implying that consciousness (related to GOD, VIshnu, Brahman etc) is NOT chaos or anything derived from it, but is connected to the materrial world (chaos) through the intelligence or negative entropy phenomenon. Intelligence dictates how the consciousness  evolves. This negative entropy is a BASIC feature of the universe,  and is NOT any person.]   According to the definition of Chaos for a dynamical system to be classified as chaotic, it must have
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From: Dr. Sushen Krishna Das < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Deluding Science VS Enlightening Science To: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM Submit Manu_script_ Affectionate Guardians Transcendental Nectar of Sadhu-Sanga
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    Dr. Sushen Das,      Thankyou for the elaboration. I am happy to see that the discussions here are taken in the true spirit of learning. As it is, ALL OF US are in the dark, we are groping around to find the truth. I feel the important thing is to keep trying, help others in the
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From: Dr. Sushen Krishna das < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] Complete Knowledge To: Transcendental Nectar of Sadhu-Sanga < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:35 PM [Read the post in HTML at: http://groups.google.co.in/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/web/complete-know... ] Dear Dr. Hari Warrior: Please accept my humble dandavat pranamas. Thank
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