buylotrogold

There is a controversy about whether animals besides humans are capable of empathy. It appears to me that scientists who think that animals can empathize(sp??) are in the minority, with the majority of scientists holding on to the ideology that only humans have such qualitites.         My box turtle empathizes on a regular basis. When I am walking around the room he is usually fine and ignores me. But if I take an interest in him and look at him, he gets nervous and goes into his log to hide. He knows that  I see him. That's empathy. He is ware of my mental state. I know this far from a scientific experiment, but I never tried to have an experiment with him. I just noticed his behavior and found it quite interesting.         Evolutionary theory would suggest that animals can empathize. It is extremely adaptive to know if another being can see you or not. Jason

There is a controversy about whether animals besides humans are capable of empathy. It appears to me that scientists who think that animals can empathize(sp??) are in the minority, with the majority of scientists holding on to the ideology that only humans have such qualitites. My box turtle empathizes on a regular basis. When I am walking around the room he is usually fine and ignores me. But if I take an interest in him and look at him, he gets nervous and goes into his log to hide. He knows that  I see him. That's empathy. He is ware of my mental state. I know this far from a scientific experiment, but I never tried to have an experiment with him. I just noticed his behavior and found it quite interesting. No, that's not empathy, that's only a reaction to a stimulus perceived as dangerous. Empathy is a different sort of thing. What we mean by empathy is a much rarer behavior. It seems to happen to bonobos, a kind of chimpanzee, able to use symbols to communicate (see Sue Savage-Rumbaugh's book about Kanzi). In an experiment, a man is put in front of a bonobo chimp. Then suddenly, the adult looks to the ceiling, pretending having seen something strange. Impressively, the bonobo also looks at the ceiling, trying to see what that strange thing is. This not only reveal the amazing perceptive abilities of the bonobos but also its empathetic abilities (recognizing the human's intention in looking for something strange). Now try to do this with your dog. The result will be no recognition, showing that dogs (as with most other animals) do not have enough brain machinery to present this kind of behavior. Regards, Sergio Navega.

Impressively, the bonobo also looks at the ceiling, ...Now try to do this with your dog. The result will be no recognition, showing that dogs ... do not have enough brain machinery to present this kind of behavior. I guess some dogs might get to similar results about its human concerning smell. There was a dog who knew me for years barking at me till I got 5 meters close.  Did not have the impression that she saw well. (Apart from that some of the dogs I saw reminded me more of genetically warped guinea-pigs with longer legs.)

I get the impression that you are very much INTO psychic phenomenon.  What scientific proof can be offered for telepathic ability in humans or any other organism on this planet? Tim

There is a controversy about whether animals besides humans are capable of empathy. It appears to me that scientists who think that animals can empathize(sp??) are in the minority, with the majority of scientists holding on to the ideology that only humans have such qualitites.         My box turtle empathizes on a regular basis. When I am walking around the room he is usually fine and ignores me. But if I take an interest in him and look at him, he gets nervous and goes into his log to hide. He knows that  I see him. That's empathy. What you're doing is commiting the anthropomorphic fallacy- you're assigning human emotions, thoughts, etc. to an animal without justification. When we see a dog pull the corners of his mouth back we're liable to thing oh, look, he's smilingt- when the dog is actually getting ready to attack. When you say your turtle gets nervous , you're assigning human emotions to him without justification. We don't know what his emotional state is. Perhaps he's fleeing from a perceieved predator threat. Maybe it's something akin to fear. Maybe he's on the verge of attacking. Despite various sorts of use and misuse, *empathy* is the ability to conceptually project  yourself into the condition of another, through shared experience, typically.  It requires both conciousness and similar experiences.  If I see your turtle running from your dog, I can sympathize with him, but I can't empathize. - mike                 http://www.mich.com/~mje