buylotrogold

Brittanies are commonly quite soft in attempting to whoa break them.  I have found that with both Setters and Brittanies it is best to : 1. Keep your mouth shut except to utter the command-don't whoa the dog multiple times while yelling or screaming at the animal 2.Keep your hands off the dog use a simple solid core check cord attached to the collar to check the dog so it cannot chase - a half hitch around the mid section will tame even a fired up bird chaser. 3.A studded training collar -not a sharp spike collar is the ultimate in providing hands off restraint and correction. There is an excellent procedure given by Dave Walker in his tapes-Dogs Started Right and in the Tape-Meat on the Table.There is an excellent book on use of the training table to help teach whoa that is published by NAVHDA,Box 520,Arlington Heights,IL.60006.  Their membership fee is $60.The Dave Walker tapes can be ordered from Forest Co.Sports Center,P.O. Box98, Tionesta <PA 16353.Telephone #is 800-458-6093. JimBreece

Well I've read and read and listened but I can't remember a method to teach whoa to a pup that appears to be to soft. (Brittany) 1.5 yrs Hank had to be incouraged to get interested in birds.  And now he locates and points well, will let you walk up in front and flush the bird, but it is a 50-50 chance that he will break on wing.  He has had at least 20 birds (pinraised) shot over him.  The acid test was pheasant hunting, where 7 out of 10 times he tried to break.  Succesfully 3 times where I was shooting away.  I Alpha roled him in the field and this seem to help some.  I just don't know how he would react to a pinch collar.  Any suggestion's on how to get the job done without forcing him hard?  Will the patience of a rock and alot of hunting get it done? Awaiting true wisdom......Ralph

On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 05:34:51 Ralph Hedinger writes, Well I've read and read and listened but I can't remember a method to teach whoa to a pup that appears to be to soft. (Brittany) 1.5 yrs Hank had to be incouraged to get interested in birds.  And now he locates and points well, will let you walk up in front and flush the bird, but it is a 50-50 chance that he will break on wing.  ..........I just don't know how he would react to a pinch collar.  Any suggestion's on how to get the job done without forcing him hard?  Will the patience of a rock and alot of hunting get it done? Because of this posting I would like to take the opportunity to open the discussion on the term 'soft' as it relates to the training of bird dogs. As I understand it soft or softness means that the dog because of its 'nature' yields readily to training 'pressure'. I must mention that 'softness' is not correlated with the dogs desire for birds. There are many dogs that are 'soft' but have termendous desire for birds. Indeed dogs vary in their temperment, some are labeled bold, soft, timid, sly, and etc. In general, most trainers would rather have a bold dog to train than a 'soft' one, as the bold dog will 'hold' up to the training process without losting too much intensity. However, a 'good' dog trainer will finish dogs with class regardless of the dog's temperment. It may take longer to finish the sly, timid or soft dog in comparsion to a bold one but in the end, they look similar on point. The problem I see is that some trainers (owners) lable their dog 'soft' if the dog doesn't withstand their training methods. This way the trainers are not at fault but rather it's the dogs fault for being 'soft'. You may even know these 'trainers', for some 'bad luck' they seem to always end up with 'soft' dogs, that point without intensity and lowers it's tail when the trainer walks nearby. I must admitt most 'soft' dogs I have encountered are man made ones. Now, on to Ralph's question. Yes, you can use the pinch collar (very blunted spikes) on a soft dog. The secret is controlling the check cord and use short quick tugs (quick constriction and release of the pinch collar). First use the pinch collar for the here command. Allow your dog to wonder out front and, give the command here, and immediately give a quick tug (not hard; just enough to make the dog come in). Don't allow the dog to 'freeze' but if the dog does, continue to give quick tugs and make the dog come in. Pretty soon the dog will respone to the here command before you can give a tug on the pinch collar. Once the dog is acustom to the pinch collar do all 'obedience' training with it. Now on to the birds, plant the bird in a launcher or awake with a board attached to it's feet (usually on pigeons) and bring the dog up. Once the dog is pointing (lets assume you are using a launcher), walk out in front and launch the bird (treat all birds like wild birds, therefore, launch the bird as you get close) as the dog moves don't say anything but give a short tug on the pinch collar and place the dog in it's original pointing direction (not necessarily in the same place or position). If your dog is truely 'soft' than you don't need much force. Repeat the above sequence untill the desired behavior(s) becames a habit and the dog is reliable. On a side note, if you are training with other people use them and their dogs as distractions and train on the side without birds. Most people think their dog is only learn when it's on birds but as we know that's not the case. Good luck, Sam Madamba and 2 bird dogs This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

I agree with Mr Breese meat on the table is the best video I have seen to aid in the training of any hunting dog soft or not. I would like to add that the Dave Walker Trainging collar is available from the same address that he gave you for the video for $24.95. BUY IT. It will not hurt your dogs but it is a great training aid. My dogs do not come out of the house or kennel without it on when I am with them until they are broke.                                        Joe Phipps

Thanks Joe.  I missed Mr. Breese's post.  Could you repost or E-Mail it to me.  Seem our news server dropped a few things the past few days.

Sam I guess you missed what I wanted.  Hank is not weak on point.  He has a tendancy to break and chase when the birds go up.  Not wanting to break his spirit, and or intensity by using a pinch collar.  Hank does not take to well to even a choke collar.  I'm just not wanting to use a pinch collar unless I've tried everything else  to make him WHOA steady to wing.  Whoa doesn't have a damn thing to do with birds.  To me it means all feet on the ground don't move until you are released.  Thanks for the rendition anyway.